I decided to post about this as i had read Tandelman's Where there's Murk,there's Brass. http://tandlemanbeerblog.blogspot.co.uk/2017/09/where-theres-murk-theres-brass.html.
We were on our second day in Falmouth and starting to find out where pubs were and get on with doing all of them,i had warned my wife that we may bump into a crap overpriced craft bar at some point and have to drink some of it,she shrugged this off and did not think about it.
Well it came home to roost on a Sunday night while we were doing pubs in Falmouth.
We had had a walk up the Old High Street and a second visit to the Boat House,which my wife liked a lot,we were walking back down the High Street when we both spotted a court yard with what looked like a bar at the end of it,we had to go and see if it was a bar,it was so went straight in to what was at best a basic if not crummy two roomed bar,and even worse it was a craft beer bar.
The Hand Bar
 |
| Photo taken by Alan Winfield |
My wife took a seat near the bar and i went to the bar to order two drinks,then i noticed a sign saying NO REAL ALES,there were also no handpumps,so not sure how they would serve it anyway,i was by now well out of my comfort zone as all of the keg fonts had beers on that i had never heard of and some far too strong for us,i was also lacking a beard which seemed to the order of the day here.
I then realised we were in a craft bar and i had to make a decision as to what to get to drink,i soon thought i would have a half as i did not have the fainest idea what i was about to order,i asked for two half of Verdant Some Fifty Summers as this was the weakest beer at 4.6%,it was poured and looked like sludge,we both stared at it,then i had a drink of this crap craft sludge,it tasted really bad like no drink i have ever had before,my wife took a sip and said what is this crap you have got me,i confessed i did not know,we were soon taking photos of the drinks as they looked so bad.
 | ||
| Two halfs of Verdant Some Fifty Summers |
Not my normal type of post but mine and my wifes reply to what we think of crap craft beer.
Why didn't you just leave when you realised it didn't sell warm brown water? And what exactly was wrong with the beer? AWFUL writing by the way. Cheers!
ReplyDeleteI did it in a rush and i am just a normal factory worker.
DeleteI tasted crap and it took both of us two drinks of proper beer in Wetherspoons to get rid of the taste.
Firstly thank you for replying. If we ever meet, I'd like to buy you a beer for that second sentence, it sums up the problem with CAMRA and why were waiting for when not if it dies.
DeleteCan I ask in future, that if you don't like or agree with what a pub is like or serves, you still consider that at the end of the day a person owns it and relies on it no doubt to feed their family?
I suspect you have a favourite brewery, probably a favourite pub and are friendly with them, imagine if people who didn't like the style of beer they serve went on to write a blog and make attacks on many levels about the place / beer / people....
Thanks
Dan, I have to say you should review your own writing when criticizing others: "If we ever meet, I'd like to buy you a beer for that second sentence, it sums up the problem with CAMRA and why were waiting for when not if it dies." Nice sentence. And it's we're, not were.
DeleteThe sentence structure is fine. You're correct that I didn't notice the problem on were / we're - luckily it seems even you realised what I meant though.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteThese comments are truly amazing. "Even you realised what I meant though." You guys can't stop with the personal attacks. You have absolutely no idea who I am. You should take your own advice. To paraphrase, if you don't like it, don't read it.
DeleteYour original point was a personal attack.
DeleteThat wasn't paraphrasing it was a different point.
If I wanted to make a personal attack I'd call you a simpleton for being so easily "truly amazed".
No, it was not personal. It was strictly about your writing errors. You seem unable to stay away from personal attacks. Amazed again!
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Why would you not ask for help from the staff if you didn't know what you should drink? Why not ask for a taster before ordering something?
ReplyDeleteNot all beer is going to be brown water stuff dragged through an uncleaned line by a hand pump, what you've just experienced is fresh tasty hop forward IPA, not a bad beer, just something that doesn't sit in your normal measure of standard 'real ale'.
You do realise that after punctuation that you should leave a space?
I never ask for tasters,and not all real ales are brown,you get some lighter beers and some darker.
DeleteI did not know about punctuation i am now 55 so not that bothered about learning it.
Alan, I'd be interested to know what you would consider your favourite beer, the one that you would always go to and drink on a regular basis, just to get some perspective on what you would have preferred to be poured.
DeleteCraft or real ale, it doesn't really make that much of a difference what the tagged on label is, I love good beer, beer where the brewer/brewery is passionate about what they produce, where they use the best ingredients possible, where they experiment to offer different flavours and styles. The only bad beer is a poorly kept or mass produced cost driven pint of crap.
The comment about the spacing, wasn't to put you down, just that it would make it easier to read your posts ;)
Our favourite drink while on holiday in Falmouth was St Austell Proper Job.
DeleteTBH when I was down in Devon a month ago I got to drink a fair bit of Proper Job on cask, it was pretty damn good. Also like the occasional bottle of it too, so I'm not anti old school cask brown beer, its what I started drinking many years ago and led me to craft beer.
DeletePerhaps you should try edging your way into some of the more modern craft beers, try some of the great craft cask beers that you can find from breweries such as Marble or Elusive or Siren Craft. It might seem like sludge to you now, but trust me when you get into some of these beers and start learning about the intricacies of how they're created you do start to appreciate the work that goes into them and the inventiveness of the modern craft beer scene.
What did it taste like?
ReplyDelete"Talking about how bad it tasted and looked" doesn't really help out your reader, were the any off flavours or was it just not to YOUR taste? That photo makes the beer look very appetising, in fact I wish I had one now.
It doesn't look very appetising to me. It looks like the fermenting wort in my primary fermenter: should be ready for consumption in a couple of weeks!
DeleteYour poor literacy skills and inability to put together a well informed and informative critique make no more than the narrow minded personal opinion of a bland brown water drinker. My recommendations would be to get some English lessons and learn some more about beer.
ReplyDeleteLove the blog Alan. Cracking post.
ReplyDeleteIgnore the crafttards, they criticise your grammar out of rank snobbery to delegitimize you and your opinion. You keep saying it as you see it.
Keep winding the arseholes up!
Eloquent and informed - bravo!
DeleteIf someone decides to write a blog, grammar and spelling are relevant, but ignoring that as it's a form of review or report then people are allowed to expect reasoning or justification for something being lambasted.
But let's just sweep all that aside and start swearing and dismissing valid points because we don't like them.
"Crafttards"
DeleteYou really are a class act, aren't you?
Bet you're a pole fishing, Alt-Right, Daily Mail reading melt...?
I am northern scum. I live oop north. I enjoy drinking. I like beer, all beer, and whilst I may nominally prefer "good" beer, I am cheap. Beer is a simple product of simple ingredients. Mainly water with fermented commodity grains and a weed as its main flavour. Beer ought to be cheap. Thus I cannot bothered to be a beer snob and quaff whatever is cheap wherever I find it. That’s usually supermarkets, as they pile it high and sell it cheap. I drink in the odd pub where the beer is not a sting, but by and large pubs are for losers. Cheap Beer. This I think is worthy of celebration."
DeleteEnough said 😂
Well said, Cookie.
DeleteYou've certainly brought the beer snobs crawling out of their holes, Alan, but their comments say far more about them than they do about you.
Ah, the Arch Clown of Cask has reared his hilariously irrelevant head 😂
DeleteI wear the title as a badge of honour :-)
DeleteThank you Cookie,Curmudgeon and Dave for some nice replies,i was not expecting to get a load of abuse after posting it.
DeleteI never though that giving a post about crap craft beer and a photo to prove what it looked like and what we though about it would get so many nasty replies.
Never underestimate the insecurity of the new beer scene Alan. Your post attacked core principles of a very insecure group. They can disparage others, but the reverse is not allowed.
DeleteThe amount of personal abuse on this thread has been amazing. Surely when commenting on blogs you should follow the principle of "play the ball, not the man".
DeleteI'm sure Alan would admit himself he's not the world's greatest English stylist, but he goes in pubs where others fear to tread and often puts across some valuable home truths.
Thanks Dave and Peter for backing me up and you are spot on with your last sentence Peter.
DeleteThey now seem to have gone away,probably to drink some craft sludge at £6 a pint,i was a bit down when i looked at the replies on Monday.
"Too string!!" Love it. Never had a beer with string in but I'm sure it'll come. I've had beer with unusual additions, it's all part of the adventure. As a liker of good beers of any origin I try not to let it's origin cloud my judgement. Good beer doesn't have to be cask real ale,it can come in can,keg, bottle or an old sock.I don't care. Clarity is irrelevant. I taste with my mouth, not my eyes. You sir are a bigoted knob.
ReplyDeleteCrikey Alan, you've attracted some crafttards that are about as pleasant as the beer they drink!
ReplyDeleteI know Cookie,not sure why they have replied to my poor blog,but i have been called a Sir,the first time ever,shame about the bigoted knob at the end of the sentence.
DeleteMany thanks for your replies.
Kind of amazing the anger this post generated. I read many posts by craft beer people denigrating other types of beer. Yet when the reverse is done really bigoted comments come out. I read Alan precisely for his style. (My MA is in English Literature.) Rather than crabbing about his grammar and syntax read the text. Remember John Clare. You might learn something from someone who is different.
ReplyDeleteThat's the trouble with these crafties, they don't like it up 'em.
DeleteAlan, your writing style is a breath of fresh air. Please keep posting.
ReplyDeleteThank you for all of your comments backing me and my wife up on what we thought of that beer was drank.
DeleteI was very surprised at the abuse i got from people who do not comment on other pub related blogs.
It was very nice to see the comments from people i know post on blogs and also do their own blogs.
I now know they do not like it up 'em.
It appears the problem though Alan is that you haven't really said what you thought about it was crap.
DeleteThe perception, and what you've clearly stated as well, is just that everything about the place and beer was different - which means to you it was crap.
I think proper job is crap, but I say that because I find it boring and bland, from working with brewers from that (and many other breweries) however I do know it's a consistent and good quality beer that a lot of people do like.
You really should stop. "I think proper job is crap...boring and bland." "I do know it's consistent and good quality..." You know this from "working with brewers." This sentence is convoluted and puts forth a really tortured idea. Why think it is a good quality beer if you think it is boring and bland? Is it theoretically a good beer to you because others tell you it is?
DeleteI didn't say it was a good beer I said I think it's crap. I said it is consistent and of good quality.
DeleteI can differentiate between good, bad, and also whether I like something or not. That's really the main point of my objection here.
Why can something not be of good quality - but also be bland and boring?
Why is it crap though because it is bland and boring? This is pretty much Alan's line of thinking.
DeleteAlan, keep up the good work. Those of us who have been along with you for the whole ride appreciate your thoughts.
ReplyDeleteCheers Richard,
DeleteYou now know where not to go if visiting England in the future.
It is so nice to see nice comments after having to read all of that abuse.
Alan, as someone who knows Falmouth well I can sympathise with your experience.
ReplyDeleteI always enjoy your blogs whether I add a comment or not.
Your choice of Proper Job as you favourite beer whilst in Cornwall marks you out as a drinker of experience and discernment.
Keep up the good work.
Thank you Malcolm,
DeleteWe both loved Falmouth and both me and the wife did really like Proper Job,so it was our choice of beer when there were others on the bar.
Lots more to come from our Falmouth holiday,but it does take me time getting round to doing blogs as i am so busy with other beer related things.
Cheers Alan
I don't agree with this post. If you want to write about beer you should be able to distinguish between bad (crap) beer and beer You just happen not to like.
ReplyDeleteI don't think we've crawled back under a rock or anything, it just seemed to be blindly becoming a numbers game of support or not, I still don't think the core point has been addressed which is probably why we gave up - what was wrong with the beer?
ReplyDeleteWas refraining from commenting when I saw this initially, as it was just one of so many disastrously written blogs from a sole, terribly misinformed, misguided voice. However, now there are so many ignorant opinions flooding in from anti craft beer elements.
ReplyDeleteThe fact is CAMRA is about as relevant these days as print journalism.
Majority of members refuse to adapt or evolve and are bizarrely proud of their stagnation. Don't get me wrong, some cask led breweries eg Marble, Hawkshead, still produce great beer (Hawkshead were even at BeaverEx the biggest ever UK beer event)...but a bulk of ale produced eg Sharps Doombar, is tepid, flavourless excuse for a beer and the reason it is so cheap is because it is mass produced with no care and cheap ingredients.
The reason why cask beer is in the process of being gradually faded out by UK beer community is two fold...the ignorant twiggies claiming a pint should cost X amount and refusing to pay more.. regardless of process involved or ingredients used, which consequently constantly drives the price down (why Cloudwater and others have ceased cask production) Also, the breweries concerned for the way it is maintained on premises..whether staff are trained to be able to distribute it correctly...clean lines etc. Keg beer is a lot more robust.
As for moaning about a beer costing £6...you really, as others have said, should have tasted it first. I have a sneaking suspicion though you bought it to create this drama. Also, suggest if you want to continue reviewing anything..you offer a detailed opinion based on fact, in this case flavour notes on what you experienced. Otherwise, what's the point. Do you think every film reviewer enjoys every film they review. Atm this doesn't read like a blog, more a child's diary entry tbh. As for the idiotic comments about dregs..lol. I hope that was a feeble attempt at humour for your wife's sake. Let's just say she may want to look into beer production in finer detail. Brewdog posted all of their recipes online. Don't think there is any mention of storing dregs for re-use....pfffft.
How can you think BeaverEx was the biggest ever UK beer event? Admit it, you're not real are you.
DeleteI think Alan has described himself and his writing adequately. One must read some, if not all, past posts to get a sense of his blog. It was clear to me that he did not like that beer because of the look and taste. That is all, case closed. It is his blog, his rules. Read it, or do not read it. Do not make it what you want it to be. If you spend your time responding to blogs that do not meet your standards, I would imagine that you do not accomplish much in your life. If he had made his comments on your blog or on a brewery comment page, that would be different. So, keep writing Alan, do not let these people discourage you. The rest of us will continue to enjoy your comments.
ReplyDeleteThank you Richard,
DeleteThey now seem to getting fed up with people who are posting replies in support of what i said about that beer,it was honestly a really horrible tasting beer.
I really do not know why all of these keg craft beer drinkers are doing nasty replies to what was a post about what we both thought of the beer.
You do have to laugh when phrases like this are used: "anti craft beer elements." Talk about taking things a bit too seriously. I didn't realize I was part of this type of nefarious social movement. Man the defenses! We're at war!
DeleteIf you had read my blog properly,you have read that i did not know any of the keg craft crap that was on the bar,so just ordered the lowest gravity one that was on the bar,why would i ask for a taster when just ordering two halfs.
ReplyDeleteI was stating what my wife thought of the beer and as to how it was produced,you and i know that it is not produced like that,but why does it look like muddy water.
Regarding the taste which you craft people keep banging on about,i could not explain it,my wife did say it tasted of something but could not pin it down,but we both agreed that it tasted horrible and it did take two drinks of proper real ale to get the taste out of our mouths.
I am getting pretty fed up with nasty comments about me being a pleb,idiot,illiterate,bigoted knob ect.
I have not posted nasty replies back and i was being honest in what i thought of the pub and the drink we had in it.
I think people's problem is the fact you keep referring to the beer as craft keg crap
DeleteJust because it's not to your taste doesn't make it crap
Just like I can't stand doombar, doesn't mean it's crap does it?
Hear here Anthony!
DeleteThis post is much simpler than you are making it. Alan thought the beer was crap because he didn't like it. He used the word "sludge" and "dregs of home brew." These are his perceptions. They make it crap to him. Just like you probably think Doombar is crap if you are being honest. Several of the people on this string don't like Doombar. Nobody is going to take offense to this opinion if you express it. Alan has a right to his opinion just like everyone else has a right to their opinion.
DeleteYou can write what you like, Alan. It's your view. I've liked the craft beer in HAND but it's not as good as it was when it opened and dropping the cask was a poor decision.
ReplyDeleteOther folk who disagree can start their own blog and praise HAND, of course, assuming they've ever been to Falmouth and put money in the tills there like you have.
Nice to you back on my blog Martin,
DeleteNice reply also.
Cheers Alan
There does seem to be an amazing amount of over-intellectualising in response to this post. No doubt if Alan posted "I think Derby County are a load of crap" people would be asking "Just what is it about the Rams you don't like?"
ReplyDeleteYes, at a certain point this string is really about some people taking beer far too seriously:)
DeleteThat is an abysmal analogy...#justsaying
DeleteOne thing that constantly amazes me is how often CAMRA is assumed to be defending a particular style of beer rather than a method of serving a beer. (I like being amazed!) The assumption seems to be that cask has to be "bland brown water..." I come from craft country and love that my local serves their IPA on cask. The flavor becomes much more subtle than the keg version. The hop flavor mellows. Same beer though... It's about serving method, not the beer.
ReplyDeleteFlavour not flavor.
DeleteOn your side of the ocean😄
DeleteSince the sticking point seems to be what this beer tasted like I pulled this from Beer Advocate: "Really hazy pale color with some white foam that fizzed away really fast. Aroma is really hoppy with floral and grassy notes and some clean malt in the background. Taste starts with a light malty sweetness and juicy hops on top. More fruity on the taste with apricot and melon notes. Light bitterness on the finish. Light to medium body, well carbonated, quite dry on the finish." This is the flavor Alan does not like very much. He is also not a fan of hazy beers.
ReplyDeleteKeep writing Alan, I enjoy your style and you're entitled to your opinion
ReplyDeleteBlimey. And there are some that call all CAMRA members ignorant. Talk about playing the man. Eek. Blatant snobbery and contempt for someone just telling it as he saw it.
ReplyDeleteAlan this is YOUR blog and you can say what you like! I'm partial to a bit of crafty sludge myself, but each to their own eh?
ReplyDeleteSorry to see people giving you abuse for this post. I didn't actually realise before this that you had your own blog, but I recognise your name and writing style from your contributions to Pubs Galore (which to my mind is, in general, the currently most usefully informative pub review site), and although it's very different from the way I write myself, I appreciate it and am glad that you put the work in. I hope all the nastiness hasn't spoiled your memories of your holiday.
ReplyDeleteNo it has not spoiled any memories of our Holiday in Falmouth.
DeleteJust so surprised at how much abuse has been used against me for what i posted.
I've only discovered your blog recently (thanks to Retired Martin pointing me to it). It's great to see your different approach to writing about pubs and the beer you find in them, basically just telling us where you go and how the beer and pubs are there. Unpretentious.
ReplyDeleteI'm a Yank living in Germany (civilian) who has become a great fan of cask beer and pubs...the kind you find only in Britain. Mrs & I are on a long holiday in Broadstairs right now. I've done 43 pubs since arriving Friday afternoon. A decent start, I think.
On all the commentary here...what would the craft kids be drinking today if it hadn't been for Fuller's ESB and Taylor's Landlord having inspired Sierra Nevada and Anchor back in the 70's? We all owe a huge debt to CAMRA.
Keep up the good work, I'd like to buy you and Mrs a round someday.
--Nick (I lost interest in beer blogging as soon as I started it a decade or so ago.)
More power to your elbow, Alan. Might have been better if you'd spelt out what it was about the flavour you didn't like, or whether it was mostly the look of the thing (it does look pretty awful from those pictures) - but it's your blog!
ReplyDeleteAs for the people piling on to have a go, I think they protest too much - far too much. I mean, if all real ale were "brown water stuff dragged through an uncleaned line", nobody with any taste would drink it amd we'd be mad to prefer it to keg. In reality, of course, a lot of it is pretty damn good; when I've been able to do a direct comparison it beats keg, like for like, nine times out of ten. (BrewDog used to do some amazing beer...) As for CAMRA, it's not a Campaign For anything called Real Ale in whatever condition it comes in - it's a Campaign For well-made and well-kept Real Ale. Which - I hate to mention it - can quite often be found at your friendly local Spoons.
I have no problems in drinking in Wetherspoons,decent real ales at a cheap price and usually different beers on each week.
DeleteWe will be in a Wetherspoons tomorrow.
I'm off to a CRAFT beer bar this evening Alan. Cloudy Cloudwater awaits.
DeleteAnd you thought not many people read your blog.
Cheers, Dan
Wow nice to see you back and looking at my blog Dan.
DeleteI would prefer Nottingham EPA that was on in our local Wetherspoons on Saturday.
It has surprised me how many people have looked at my blog and especially this one.
I will give you an Email soon unless you beat me to it.
Cheers Alan
I like the beer, but I like your blog more. Keep going Alan. I can't believe some of the spiteful comments you have received.
ReplyDeleteI have had to read all of these crap comments about real ale being boring brown water and the like.
ReplyDeleteWell it is time for me to have my say.
I am not really into tasting notes,so did not say what the keg craft crap tasted like,just as i could not give tasting notes for Doom Bar,St Austell Proper Job or any other real ale,both me and my wife like drinking different types of real ales.
Now this will come as a surprise to you craft lot,but there are so many types of real ales and we do drink most of them,Oldershaws Mild is a great drink,Nottingham EPA and Castle Rock Harvest Pale are really nice light beers,Shepherd Neame Bitter and Harveys Bitter are nice proper bitters.
We also drink Stouts and Porters.
So there you go lots of different styles of real ales.
As for one stupid comment that said my blog was like a childs diary,why are you reading it then,try reading more grown up content if you do not like mine.
The largest beer festival in the UK is in my home town of Nottingham,the Robin Hood Beer Festival is the largest in the country and i have been to all since 1982 and my wife since 1984,so another load of crap spouted by you.
We are just normal people who prefer if possible to have a drink of real ale,we are not beer geeks which some seem to be who have replied on my blog.
I would like to thank all of those who posted comments of support for what i said.
Good reply, Alan. I read your blog when you posted it and enjoyed your description of the crap beer. I especially enjoyed your wife's crack about it looking like the sludge in the bottom of your home brew. I couldn't believe it when someone on the Pubs Galore Forum commented that some "keg fanboys" had been having a go at you and I've spent the last half hour reading all the comments above. There are certainly some very unpleasant people about on the Internet. Unbelievable!
DeleteKeep up the good work on your blog. And well done for passing the milestone of 6000 pubs reviewed on Pubs Galore!
You're simply willfully ignorant, then. Says it all really.
DeleteThank you Will.
ReplyDeleteAs i have said on my short post about the Hand Bar,we just said what we thought about the beer and the pub or bar,and my wife did say what i posted about them making beer from dregs.
I was very surprised at how many nasty comments i got,and it was so nice to get loads of support from other bloggers and people who know me through blogs.
I am miles behind with my reviews,but it is all written down so all will come in time.
I am pleased you have read my blog.
Cheers Alan
Hi Alan
ReplyDeleteI've worked out I can post using my mobile phone, but not my laptop.
Hope the fuss has died down !
Just to say you should have a look at Britainbeermat's blog
https://lifeafterfootball839.wordpress.com
Nice Derby pub for you !
Get yourself to The Ferrers Arms Alan! https://wordpress.com/post/lifeafterfootball839.wordpress.com/1171
ReplyDeleteI did the Ferrers Arms many years ago Ian and Everards built the pub,i tried to do a reply on your blog but did not know how to do it.
DeleteWhere the Asda store is,there was an estate pub there before it called The Fighting Cocks,a Shipstones tied house.
I will now start reading your blog and see if i have been in any more pubs you have done.
I remember the Fighting Cocks pub in Sinfin, long gone.
DeleteExcellent blog. Keep up the good work Alan.
Spondon Steve
Well pleased you read this post on my blog,Spondon Steve.
DeleteThe Fighting Cocks was a decent Shipstones tied house as you well know.
I had a great night out last night watching the Aussie Floyd,they were brilliant.
Some strong words of support from Tandleman :-)
ReplyDeleteYes i have just read his blog through a link on Martins blog,
ReplyDeleteNice to have some support for what i posted about murky overpriced craft crap.
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